Good/Functional design

To talk about anything else
User avatar
Sewie
Posts: 1294
Joined: 18 Jun 2008, 11:57
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Contact:

Good/Functional design

Post by Sewie »

This should also apply to software interfaces in general, I believe.

Michael Sewnarain - Website
Windows 11/64b Pro - TVP11.5.3 - Pro/64b - Cintiq32 Pro - Intel i7-12700K - 64Gb RAM
Elodie
Posts: 13913
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 09:53
Location: Metz

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Elodie »

Excellent video, thanks for sharing ^^
Sewie wrote:This should also apply to software interfaces in general, I believe.
It is applied to software interface, but there, "logic" is not so natural for everyone. (It is obviously easier to design a door than a software.)

I will talk about a topic I know well : TVPaint interface. Now that we have changed its interface, most feedbacks are positive (better interface, more intuitive, etc), which was not the case a few years ago. Several generations of software were necessary, especially because some people were used to different software and some people had never used digtal tools before (and I won't even talk about animation habits...) : so what is logic and intuitive for some, are illogical and cumbersome for other.

That's why in festivals I let people testing the software to see how they take it in hands. This is the best way to see which points should be improved.
User avatar
schwarzgrau
Posts: 1229
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:08
Location: Offenbach / Germany
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by schwarzgrau »

Thank you Sewie really interesting video. For a door this principle is quite simple (I wonder why it's still done wrong so often), but transferring this to something like software seems to be much more complicated to me. However good to have this in the back of your mind, while designing anything somebody else has to use.
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Cintiq 22HD
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Mobile Studio Pro 16" (2019)
INSTAGRAM
User avatar
Fabrice
Posts: 10077
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 15:00
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Fabrice »

nice video.
It is applied to software interface, but there, "logic" is not so natural for everyone. (It is obviously easier to design a door than a software.)

I will talk about a topic I know well : TVPaint interface. Now that we have changed its interface, most feedbacks are positive (better interface, more intuitive, etc), which was not the case a few years ago. Several generations of software were necessary, especially because some people were used to different software and some people had never used digtal tools before (and I won't even talk about animation habits...) : so what is logic and intuitive for some, are illogical and cumbersome for other.
I would add that : in contrary of a door, a software evolve during years.
An interface that was convenient & user-friendly in the past might not be later when new features have been developped & added, especially when those new features change the workflow.
Fabrice Debarge
User avatar
schwarzgrau
Posts: 1229
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:08
Location: Offenbach / Germany
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by schwarzgrau »

I disagree. Intuitive design has nothing to do with your workflow or what other software may offer. The more intuitive your software is the less you have to explain, since the user already sees what each button does. The software can surely become outdated, cause the workflows changed or the users need function X or function Y, but it's still 'intuitive' if it explains itself.
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Cintiq 22HD
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Mobile Studio Pro 16" (2019)
INSTAGRAM
User avatar
Fabrice
Posts: 10077
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 15:00
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Fabrice »

Well, you are maybe not following TVPaint or other software for a long time, your answer is understandable.
On my side, I remember days when tabs in the timeline panel didn't exist, when left and right drawers didn't exist, when clips didn't exist, when instances didn't exist, even when the lighttable didn't exist ...
All those exemples have deeply changed the workflow within TVPaint and the way to place the options in the various panels (I was not thinking about a workflow with other products in my previous message, I admit it was unclear).
Each time, we had to change a lot of stuff in the interface with the arrival of those features and everything about intuitiveness had to be re-worked.
No developper can say that something (interface or feature) will be the right one once for all. Everything always changes and evolves in a software (a software, you can rely on, is day by day evolving).
Of course, speaking about developpers, (s)he should do his/her best to create the best intuitive features & interfaces as possible.
Fabrice Debarge
User avatar
ematecki
Site Admin
Posts: 2255
Joined: 15 Feb 2006, 14:32

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by ematecki »

What is 'intuitive' ?
schwarzgrau wrote:since the user already sees what each button does.
"Once upon a time", the floppy-disk icon for the "save" button may have been 'intuitive'.
(Although I always prefered the one with an arrow pointing toward the floppy).
Nowaday, which student has even seen a real floppy ?
Why is this icon 'intuitive' for you, but not for the new generation ?
Because of your personal history ! You probably had your desk littered with floppys in the days...
And personal history includes your workflow(s), being it "inside" TVPaint or across softwares, or even (mainly ?) before going digital.

'Intuitive' IS a personal thing.
And if it is intuitive for a group a people, that's because they "share" a part of their histories.
Quicktime is DEAD. Get over it and move on !
User avatar
schwarzgrau
Posts: 1229
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:08
Location: Offenbach / Germany
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by schwarzgrau »

Really good point Ematecki

I guess what I wrote was too sweeping. Even if you start with a simple, very intuitive kind of software, as it developes and gets more features you would need to rewrite the whole software every time, to keep it as intuitive as in the beginning. For me it's easy to talk about intuitive software, since I never needed to code stuff, except of websites (which usually get a whole redesign, if they don't fit the requirements anymore). I guess it's always a bit easier to write something from outside.
Oh and by the way I didn't mean to criticize TVPaint, since Version 11 I'm completely happy with it.
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Cintiq 22HD
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Mobile Studio Pro 16" (2019)
INSTAGRAM
Elodie
Posts: 13913
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 09:53
Location: Metz

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Elodie »

I agree with Eric : "Intuition" is nearly another word for experience.

I also remember a moment in a film with Will Smith that occurs in the future - I think it was I, robot - . He embodies a character who doesn't like technology, so he has only "old" stuff. So, the moment I recall is the one with a girl who doesn't know how to switch off the stereo in Will's house, and she is yelling orders to the stereo ( "stop it" ! ... "no music !"... "silence !" ) because she was used to devices with voice detection. Finally, Will comes back and simply hit the stop button... :mrgreen:
Oh and by the way I didn't mean to criticize TVPaint, since Version 11 I'm completely happy with it.
Don't worry, we didn't take it like this :)
User avatar
Fabrice
Posts: 10077
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 15:00
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Fabrice »

Oh and by the way I didn't mean to criticize TVPaint, since Version 11 I'm completely happy with it.
No harm done, nor criticize perceived here. Don't worry. :)
Just a lot of points of view about 'intuitive'.
Fabrice Debarge
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 2770
Joined: 08 May 2008, 21:10
Location: berlin, germany
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by slowtiger »

The best "old technology moment" was in that Star Trek movie when Scotty talks to a Macintosh:
"Computer!"
"You must use the mouse."
grabs it and holds it like a microphone:
"Computer!"
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3
Elodie
Posts: 13913
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 09:53
Location: Metz

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by Elodie »

There is a similar joke in France about a fool who tries to call an elevator by yelling "ELEVATOR". Then a good deed tells him "you must use your finger" (implying "use your finger and push the button").
Then the fool puts his finger in his mouth and say : "EYEVATER".

...

That's funnier when you do it for real (and when your audience is a 4-years old child)
ten_zero
Posts: 805
Joined: 03 Sep 2009, 07:28
Location: The bottom of English divide

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by ten_zero »

I just don't get along with touch panel display and tabler touch button :(
Today many old video game revival on tablet device but I never met in case of replace control UI successfly.


How wonder if Wacom or Apple collaborate with some Video game console company ( Nintendo and SCE may not, so Microsoft ) to develop a palm top controller for creative works.
Image Or Image
User avatar
schwarzgrau
Posts: 1229
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:08
Location: Offenbach / Germany
Contact:

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by schwarzgrau »

I don't get it. Why would something like this be useful? Don't get me wrong, I love all weird gadget, which pretend to let me work more efficient, I just don't understand it.


Oh by the way I found something regarding the "floppy-icon" a few days ago.

Image

Still not really intuitive, but at least some other way of doing it.
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Cintiq 22HD
Windows 10 21H1 / TVP 11.5.3 PRO WIBU / Mobile Studio Pro 16" (2019)
INSTAGRAM
ten_zero
Posts: 805
Joined: 03 Sep 2009, 07:28
Location: The bottom of English divide

Re: Good/Functional design

Post by ten_zero »

schwarzgrau wrote: Oh by the way I found something regarding the "floppy-icon" a few days ago.

Image

Still not really intuitive, but at least some other way of doing it.
A simply good design, however there is a perception gap.
In this case I will confuse between "cut" and "paste" :
  • "cut" icon for "Black & white substantial object ; means make black circle and place over white cirle" (misinterpret to paste)
    "paste" icon for "break lined circle and solid lined circl ; means move solid object from vanish circled place" (misinterpret to cut)
  • For example, let us look at from a different point of view.
    hieroglyph_kanji.jpg
Last edited by ten_zero on 17 Mar 2016, 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply